Attention Bird Utopia on creating their debut album ‘Best of Kings’, organic collaboration and the influence of Aldous Huxley and David Lynch

Attention Bird Utopia. Photo credit: Ben Chant (@chenbant)

On their debut album ‘Best of Kings’, Harrison Whitford and Eli Hirsch, known collectively as Attention Bird Utopia, trade grandiosity for intimacy, warmth, and raw chemistry. We caught up with them to talk about the organic beginnings of their collaboration, the influence of Aldous Huxley and David Lynch, and how limiting their gear unlocked a focused, deeply personal sonic world.

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Ethan: It's lovely to meet you guys.

Eli: Great to be here.

Ethan: It’s great to meet you.

Harrison: I like your Apocalypse Now poster.

Ethan: Oh, thank you. Thank you so much.

Eli: I haven't seen it still, which is insane.

Ethan: Well, I'm not going to lie. I actually haven't seen it either. So I feel like a bit of a poser.

Harrison: Oh man, you gotta!

Ethan: Yeah, I know. It's on my list. It got given to me by my granddad from his house when I moved up to Brisbane.

Harrison: You know, we haven't watched it together yet, as I keep telling Eli. I think you need a big screen... it's best viewed on a really big screen.

Ethan: I've heard that from a lot of people.

Harrison: Like a friend who has a huge TV or something.

Ethan: Yeah, I feel like I really need to sit down and dedicate a whole night to watching it. It feels like one of those kind of movies.

Harrison: Yeah, it's like three and a half hours.

Eli: Recently, they were screening Godfather Part 2 here.

Ethan: Oh, awesome. That's a great movie.

Eli: Yeah. It was at this… there's this really cool theatre here called Vidiots, and it was so awesome to see.

Ethan: Yeah, totally. I feel like with some of those old movies, you didn't get the experience to see it in a big theatre when they came out. There's so many movies I see now where I'm like, yeah, I had to see that on the big screen. I don't know, some of those real big blockbusters, like Dune kind of movies. I feel like we're like it's just like an experience, you know?

Harrison: Absolutely. Yeah, definitely.

Ethan: I’m interested to know about the beginnings of the collaboration. So from what I've read, it seemed like you guys met pretty organically. Like, Harry, you were kind of showing up to Eli's studio when you were working on the Suki Waterhouse album. I was wondering if the decision to start writing songs together was an active one where you guys were like, we got to write some stuff together or was it something that came around very naturally?

Harrison: I think it came around, I would say it came around pretty naturally. I don't remember a conversation about like, “oh, we should make a record together”. I think what it was is we both… I had been wanting to make another record and Eli had been wanting to make another record. And we had this idea that we were going to do them separately, but hold each other accountable to some kind of right. And which we kind of soon abandoned, because I think we ended up starting to work on a song together and then just having fun and then just kind of chasing the thread of that instead.

Ethan: Of course. Yeah. I guess if you guys got together and saw the chemistry, then I guess why wouldn't you like pursue that kind of thing?

Eli: Totally. Yeah.

Ethan: Yeah, the chemistry is definitely there. Like you can definitely hear influences of both of you guys, like from some of like your solo stuff, Harry, and then like production which you both have done. It feels like such like a perfect mix. It seems like it was always kind of meant to happen, which I think is really, really awesome. It's really amazing that you can find kind of something like that with another musician. It's really awesome.

Eli: Totally. It is.

Ethan: Both you guys, as I was just saying, I've done like a lot of kind of production and songwriting with a few other artists in the past. Did you feel like this process of creating this album together as kind of a work that you two would represent? Was that different from those kind of processes in the past working for other people?

Eli: I think, yeah, I mean, every process is different, you know, depending on who you're working with. But I think this was different in the sense that, you know, when you're working on records for other people, it's their record and you're there to make music, but you're also there to serve them. So I think with us, we just made what we wanted to make.

Ethan: Awesome, yeah. When you guys said when you got together as well you had a shared interest of some artists like Jackson Browne, Paul Simon, The Beatles, and that was kind of something you bonded over to begin with. Were these kind of influences a main set of influences for the record, do you think? Or maybe were there some other notable influences you'd like to talk about that kind of had a big part in shaping the record?

Harrison: I think we were talking a lot about songs that we thought were great songs, or I think we're always doing that. I don't know if you [Eli] agree with this, but maybe from a sonic palette that that may put it more in line with some of those influences where it wasn't necessarily like, “oh, let's make something that sounds like this record.” I think it was more just “oh, let's make everything sound really dry and let's not mess with anything too much and let's not overthink anything too much.” And I think that that is spiritually resonant with some of those records that we like from the past. So I don't think it was like at least I don't think it was intentionally like some kind of pastiche thing of like, “oh, let's make it sound like this old shit” or something, it was more just like, these are the sounds we're interested in right now. And also I think because we were maybe a little tired to put the energy into the songs and we put the energy into playing the parts and performing everything, but we didn't have the disposition to sculpt sound from some crazy involved perspective. It was more like, let's just capture things.

Eli: I think part of what was so cool about it too was I moved into this house on this street called Avon Park Terrace in LA, which is in… it's in like kind of in like a, how do you describe it? It's like by a park…

Harrison: …it's like by an amazing park.

Eli: It's very woodsy.

Harrison: The park, to call it a park is like an understate. It's a huge nature area.

Eli: Yeah and I moved there in like, I'm trying to think of what month it was, but within a month or two, Harry and I started writing together and then we made the record that summer. And then like, right when we finished the record, I had to get out of the house. The living room was amazing. Like 16 foot. It was like a wood lodge.

Ethan: Lovely. That's awesome.

Eli: It sounded really awesome in that room. So it was, it was pretty cool.

Harrison: Yeah we leaned into the sound in the room.

Ethan: Awesome. I do feel like, yeah, it's cool when a space can kind of inspire you like that. I think that's, that's really exciting, especially as you were saying, like it's a new space. I feel like, yeah, I know for me, whenever I work in a new space, it is kind of like this new like burst of creativity when you're in there sometimes, which is really awesome.

So I guess kind of what you're saying is like those kind of all the records and like the, it was kind of the tambours and like sounds of everything and the textures were, they just, they were kind of just like in the back of your mind when you were writing the songs, like that's kind of like a touch point that it's just inspiring me at the moment, that kind of thing?

Eli: Totally. Yeah. Like other, other like films and, and other music, obviously like we're huge Radiohead fans.

Ethan: Cool! Yeah. Me too, I love Radiohead. They're one of my favourites of all time.

Eli: Incredible. And we’re Elliot Smith fans too, for sure. A lot of different music. And also Harry showed me a lot of jazz as well. I'm like, I'm a huge classical music fan as is Harry. So, you know, there's, yeah, there's a lot for sure.

Harrison: And then I think there are like other things too, I play a lot of slide guitar so slide guitar inevitably becomes a reference point for a lot of other music that features slide guitar too. So like instrumentation choices that I think point into the direction of other records, whether you want it to or not.

Ethan: Yeah, for sure. I definitely think, yeah, slide guitar is a big one and any like slide or lap steel, I feel like as soon as you get your hands on one of those kinds of things, you got to, I don't know, it feels like you really want to lean into that country/folk kind of world. It’s very nice. It feels very like rootsy and warm. I love the sound of slide guitar. It's one of my favourite instruments.

Eli: Yeah. For sure, same.

Ethan: So, the name, Attention Bird Utopia, really awesome name. When I first heard it, I was like, wow, it really jumps out at you. It's just, it's very unique and cool. I really love artist names like that. So I was wondering where that came from?

Eli: It was Harry's idea. I think you said it.

Harrison: Well, it came from…, I don't remember how we started talking about Aldous Huxley, but I think we were talking about this Aldous Huxley book, Doors of Perception. And Eli had asked me if I'd read his novel Island, which is like his counterpoint book to Brave New World. And I had never read it. And I got it and read it and in Island, there's like a bird, it's like a book about a utopia, but there's this bird that shouts “attention”. I think also like a lot of things we were talking about at the time too, about like the state of the world and like technology, that book felt relevant to us and we just liked the sound of it.

Ethan: It's really awesome when something in literacy just like jumps out at you, like a little phrase you can just grab. And it kind of becomes this little standalone thing, which I think is really cool. It's awesome how you incorporated that. On that, was there any kind of other inspiration points outside of music that were kind of inspiring you guys when you were working on the record?

Eli: Yeah, totally. I mean, we both, we're both huge David Lynch fans. He's incredible. And, yeah, I feel like we were talking a lot about David Lynch. Oh, and you know, another one. I never really like knew that much about photography. But Harry's a photographer and he showed me, we went to this gallery of, it wasn't like an opening, but it was like a… it was a show of William Eggleston. Um, how would you…

Harrison: …he's like, he's a very, um, influential color photographer, fine art photographer. I feel like there was a lot of looking at photography. And, yeah, I can't exactly recall other things outside of talking about David Lynch a lot and not even necessarily like in a way of being like, well, let's make something that feels Lynchian, but more so just talking about people who we were thinking of as examples of artists who just were really uncompromising. Committed to their thing.

Eli: Yeah, and Bowie too.

Harrison: Yeah. Like that kind of dedication and not, you know, caring about things beyond just achieving a vision.

Ethan: Yeah, for sure. David Lynch is definitely like one of the first people you think of with that - like when you see a David Lynch movie, it's just like, this is so David Lynch and yeah, so uncompromising, like that it was completely his vision. It's so inspiring. He's awesome.

Was there any kind of particular reason why you chose the track best of Kings to be the title track? Like, why was that the name of the record for you guys?

Harrison: I think we just thought that was a sick record title.

Eli: It just kind of sounds good [laughs].

Ethan: Yeah it does. Mission accomplished.

Harrison: Well, also I think best of is such a like classic, you know, if it's a greatest hits record or something cool to have a best of Kings, you know, like that that's the name of the song and it just it's like, you know, it feels right.

Ethan: And that kind of speaks to that almost like nostalgia for those kind of older records we were talking about where, you know, there's a lot of like, you know, best of like Willie Nelson or best of like those old like country folk kind of artists. I feel like, yeah, it's almost like could be a little callback to that kind of thing, which is really cool. .

Ethan: I’ve also got some production-y questions to you guys because you guys are producers. I'm a producer as well.

Eli: Oh, you are awesome.

Ethan:Yeah. And I think, yeah, the production across the record is so like tasteful, so nice. I read about the song Carrie, which you recorded through like your TASCAM, like cassette machine. And I was wondering if like that recording approach was a through line throughout the entire record and you were kind of doing everything through that like cassette or, you know, if there was a few different recording approaches?

Eli: Just to tell the total truth, we actually never touched the cassette on that machine. We just used pres. Yeah, of course. So we have like a little mini mini console. Yeah. A lot. And we pretty much recorded almost everything through those. Yeah. Almost everything.There's only a couple of things that couldn't go through it just because it couldn't really take it. Like it wasn't great for kick drum, for example. But I'm sure would've been cool in its own way, too. But yeah, I feel like that machine like really…

Harrison: …yeah, it was just sounding really good. And especially guitars. I mean, like I used to record like demos all the time on different cassette machines. And I've always loved the sound of like a guitar direct into four track. But on that particular machine, like guitar especially, just sounded so good just direct into it.

Ethan: Yeah, it sounds great. I think I kind of noticed that with some of the lead tones that you guys are doing. It did sound like the Tascam pre just like cranked quite a bit.

Eli: Yeah that’s exactly what it is!

Ethan: Yeah it has that very like, that's what it is like frequency spectrum, very thick and very sharp as well.

Harrison: Yeah, there are many tracks where it's just a guitar track and then things get controlled that the volume of the guitar really. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Ethan: You can really play into the dynamics with the Tascam as well, which is really cool. And yeah, you can definitely hear a lot of that. I love the sound of like the Tascam preamps It's definitely got such a unique flavour to it. I think that's why I really enjoyed listening to the record. It's because of that.

Eli: Yeah. Yeah, totally.

Ethan: On that like, you know, outside of Tascam, were there any kind of other pieces of gear that you guys are really drawn towards in making the record? Anything you guys just kept coming back to when working on the song?

Harrison: Yeah. Well, most of the record was made with ribbon microphones.

Eli: Yeah. I mean, I think the mics were really important. Like part of the way it sounds like as well. Like, we had my friends, RCA 44, which is incredible. And that's like, that's having all the drums. And then we have this one mic, it's actually it's a 77 and RCA 77. That it's a really weird one, though, because it normally they're really dark. And they're great. But they're always cool. But this one is like, I almost feel like something's wrong with it. Because it's way brighter and every vocal on the record is on that mic.

Ethan: Cool. Well, I feel like the ribbon microphones. Yeah, they definitely they lend themselves to that kind of sound you guys are going for. I think it works really well. Like I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like a lot of those kind of older records that were touch points for you guys would have been recorded, probably with those ribbon kind of mics.

Harrison: Yeah and also we we use like as far as gear even goes, like the the cast of gear, if you will, never changed. Like it was one electric guitar, one bass, and upright piano, upright piano and one acoustic and the same microphones

Eli: …and a Juno 60.

Harrison: Which is kind of not common, and you know, in either of our lives, a lot of records don't get made that way for us. It was also nice to just be like, okay, this is the gear we're using, and we're not committing extra thought to it.

Ethan: Yeah, definitely. It can be nice, I feel like, to kind of limit yourself to a smaller kind of tool set, especially as a producer, when you have now access to so many like plugins, pieces of gear, it can get easy to like, get lost in all of that. So yeah, I think that decision from you guys definitely might have helped to make the album sound so cohesive as well. Every song sounds like it's in the same kind of space. I think those are the limitations, I feel like, can be very important. And what you were saying as well, about like the ribbon mic having how you said it was kind of broken. It's kind of fun when a piece of gear has the imperfection like that. And it kind of really becomes its own thing then.

Eli: Yeah special! And now I feel like I don't ever want it to get worked on. Yeah, right. I hope it doesn't fuck up [laughs]. So I hope you know, it will stay like this.

Ethan: Yeah, because that's like, that's your thing now. You've got that individual mic that just sounds like that. And you know, no one else might even have that, which is really cool. That's really fun.

I already kind of talked about this. But you know, there's a strong appreciation for like vintage recording and production. And yeah, we're talking about how that's like, something that you guys are intentionally kind of going towards. Is that kind of something that's been instinctual for you guys kind of throughout your career as producers? Because I know both of you in the previous work you've done, have also kind of lent a bit towards those kind of sounds like, as producers, have you kind of always been, you know, this is kind of my sound or has this something that's been worked on towards for like, how long, you know?

Harrison: My impression for me is just like, anything is at any time that I'm doing it, an accumulation of all these different experiences and records that I've worked on either as a songwriter or guitar player or, or contributing production stuff, like, so definitely instinctual, at least for me, you know,

Eli: Are you saying though, kind of like the more it's kind of being warmer and that sort of sound of our record?

Ethan: Yeah, yeah.

Eli: Yeah, I mean, then definitely not. Like I grew up playing in punk rock bands and, you know, I was in a band for a while that was very super, like bright, and kind of more like hi-fi sounding. And no, I'm interested in all of it. Yeah, I'm super interested in all of it. Like, I love super hi-fi music. I love music that is darker and has, you know, less going on. And I love it all. It just depends. And just this is just what happened, I guess.

Harrison: And it might have also been like the songs themselves and like recording vocals and guitar at the same time or vocals, like the way we recorded, I recorded it, I think also just lended itself to that palette, maybe.

Ethan: Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I think it's really cool. Yeah, how you're saying you're coming from like a different, a whole different kind of set of influences coming into this, I think. Yeah, I think as a producer, it's really awesome that you can, yeah, touch on so many different things and still show such deep appreciation for them.I really respect that. That's really awesome.

I just wanted to quickly talk about like the songwriting there, because obviously that's such a big focus for you guys. You guys were talking about being inspired by, you know, just good songs and showing each other good songs. In that process, were you kind of bringing songs to each other as like, just ideas that you'd started out? Are you guys really just sitting down and like, okay, let's, let's write a song, you know, and just starting it from scratch together? What was kind of the process there?

Eli: A lot of times they came from like ideas that one of us had started. So we'd show up with like a verse or a chorus or an idea of some kind. And then we'd kind of take that and then expand, expand from there most of the time. And then, and then a little bit, we would we would kind of start from scratch.

Harrison: Yeah, for the most part, definitely the former though. Yeah, definitely. Like some, yeah, someone having an idea already.

Ethan: Cool. Do you find, I don't know, this is just something for me personally, I want to hear what you guys think about this. Do you find sometimes that's the easier way of doing things? Because you feel like sometimes writing a song together and starting from scratch, there's almost like a pressure on it. Do you guys ever feel like that kind of thing?

Eli: Yeah, to some extent. I mean, I think there's something kind of amazing about just being in like your own private zone. And yeah, of course, be there and do that.

It's not so much the pressure for me. I think it's more like, it's just cool to be able to do that and go like, “Hey, here's this idea.” It doesn't have to be that though. The other way is great too.

Harrison: One thing I will say is nice about somebody starting with an idea, which is less like how I've done, you know, like we've both done the thing where we sat in a room with somebody and it's like time to write a song. But like when somebody has an idea, like there's already kind of a context established, like if a chorus idea, it's like, okay, like there's a shape to this idea. So there's now like a tacit understanding of what would be like appropriate or not to add on to it. Rather than like trying to get decode this thing in real time that two people might be seeing completely differently. So it was, it was nice to do it that way. It was nice to kind of,

Eli: …but then there's also the flip side where you're with someone and there's just kind of spontaneous stuff.

Harrison: Yeah. And that also is great.

Eli: So I think it just depends.

Ethan: Yeah, totally. And that, that can be super fun as well when you can just bounce off someone like that and when it is working and you guys do have an idea that you both are very linked on that can be really fun as well. But I totally, yeah, I totally understand what you're saying. That's very true. Like, it is nice to bring like a bit of context to it and have something that's already pre established that you guys can both look at and be like, okay, we both understand this. And now we can continue to like, yeah, embellish on that together, which is really cool.

Harrison: It's also cool to work retroactively where it's like, here's a chorus. Let's work backwards now towards rather than everything always, like I feel like in a lot of like writing with people, it can be like, we're starting at the beginning of the racetrack and we got to get to the finish line. It's kind of fun to start maybe somewhere in the middle of this idea.

Ethan: Yeah. And kind of reverse engineering it that way. Like, how do we get to this point? Yeah. That's really fun. And I guess that's kind of almost, I guess what you could call kind of like a limitation in some ways. Cause you're starting with in a whole different spot and kind of having to figure it out backwards instead of doing things, you know, traditionally chronologically, which is really cool.

And my final question for you guys is what are the plans moving forward for the project that you'd like people to know about if you guys have anything planned. What do you guys see happening with Attention Bird Utopia in the future?

Harrison: We definitely want to make another record because we love making records and play shows. I mean, we're playing a release show in LA later this month, but yeah.

Eli: Hopefully we’ll make it out to Australia.

Ethan: Yeah. I'd love that. That'd be awesome. I'd love to see it played live.

Harrison: Working out different kind of like we've been starting to just refresh ourself on these songs before our show and playing like acoustic and piano and finding like, oh, this is maybe a potentially cool avenue for shows too. So yeah, I don't know. Definitely just making more records and playing.

Ethan: Yeah. That sounds great. I'm sad that I can't be in LA to come and see the show. That sounds, that sounds lovely. Are you guys going to be playing like with a full band set up as well?

Harrison: Yeah we are for that. Yeah.

Ethan: Cool. Oh wow. That's so exciting. That'll be really fun. I'm really excited to hear new things that you guys work on and hopefully you guys make it to Australia at some point. I'm sure it would be really well received over here. I feel like everyone's really loving that sound. Well thank you so much for taking the time.

Harrison: Thank you.

Eli: And send us an address and we can send you a vinyl too.

Ethan: Oh, that'd be lovely. That'd be so awesome.

Harrison: Yeah. For sure.

Ethan: That's so kind. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. This is actually kind of the first time I've done an interview actually. I never do interviews [laughs].

Eli: You did great man. That was awesome!

Ethan: Oh thank you. Usually I'm kind of in your guys' seat, but yeah, I wanted to jump on this opportunity because I really loved the record and wanted to chat to you guys about it. It's been really awesome.

Oh actually and one thing that I just thought of as well, which is such a small thing, but that,, song ‘A Company of Hamsters’, how at the very end, like really quick, I just want to know, like, even off the books, was that just kind of a little fun Easter egg, how it kind of ends or what was your thought process behind that?

Harrison: It was, um, we'll just say it was a reference to other media.

Eli: Yeah, yeah. I think we should keep it at that. Keep it special [laughs].

Ethan: I like that. I like that.

Eli: It was on purpose [laughs].

Harrison: Yeah it was on purpose.

Ethan: Yeah. I thought so. I thought so. At first I was like, woah, is something wrong with my laptop? But then I was like, okay, that's cool. I respect you for doing that. That's really cool. It's been awesome chatting with you guys. Congrats on the new record. It’s so good. I've had it on repeat since it came out. It's really, really good.

Harrison: Oh, thank you so much dude.

Eli: Thanks man, thank you so much for listening to it.

Ethan: Super, super keen to hear what you guys do next. Thanks for chatting with me.

Eli: Thank you.

Harrison: Yeah, thank you.

Listen to ‘Best of Kings’ by Attention Bird Utopia below.