Floating After Liftoff with Wesley Joseph

Wesley Joseph. Image supplied.

Interview by Kade Homa

“I'm on purity over perfection right now… when you're just following instincts and you've given yourself space to be honest and pure, it kind of just comes a lot more naturally.”

Fresh off the release of his latest album, Wesley Joseph caught up with Kade to talk about the long road to Forever Ends Someday, the patience and obsession behind the record, filmmaking, world-building, and the creative instinct that’s guided him from making beats in his bedroom to crafting one of his most expansive projects to date.

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Kade: First of all, thank you for joining me tonight. Where are you joining me from today?

Wesley:I'm in London right now.

Kade: I wanted to start simple. Where are you at with the album right now, mentally, now that it's out and people are living with it and discussing it?

Wesley:I feel surprisingly just chill about it all. Because all of the more extreme emotions kind of happened when I finished it. When I got to that finish line, that was like the last scene of The Pursuit of Happyness where he leaves the job interview, and he starts clapping and shit. I had that when I finished it. Then this whole time we've been working so hard on the campaign, because I've just been wanting to get it out into the world. So now it's actually out into the world, it was more like a handover. It's like giving a gift, but you spent so long making it. It's more so, I'm just really happy. From what I can see, looking out the window, I can just tell that people are having the right conversations and people are reacting to it.

I'm kind of just watching from afar and I'm seeing people react and talk about the record the way I would like them to. I didn't even hope to necessarily be saying this like I wanted a specific reaction, but a lot of the conversation I'm seeing I think people see it the same way I do in some way, which is really nice. 

Kade: Do you still feel close to the project, or does it already feel like something you made as a different version of yourself?

Wesley: I think both of those things are true. So I still feel close to the project because it's music that's really true to who I am and even if that version of myself was in the past, it's still very close. I guess it's just a lot closer than my older music that I made to where I'm at. So, it's the closest thing I have, apart from new music that isn't out that I've been making since the album. But yeah, but I feel like both of those things are true at the same time.

Kade: Do you think the version of you that made ULTRAMARINE would've had the patience to make this album?

Wesley:Yeah. You know what, weirdly, I've always been patient. I've always been impatiently patient. I'm a really patient and impatient person. I'll understand that, so I'll put my own parameters in place that mean I have to be patient, even though I don't want to be, so I'll be like, this isn't coming out until it's done. Every day I impatiently work until I get to the point where it's out. I had that from the start. Thrilla, for example, I made like 30 versions. In terms of creative resources, there was my laptop, which was slow as hell, like it barely even really worked. I had one synth, that I had to constantly turn on and off. There were so many things that made me get patient while making that. I think actually, that's actually the reason why I'm patient, because that was some Batman Begins level situation.

Kade: You mentioned the synth there. That's the DeepMind 12, yeah?

Wesley: Yeah.

Kade: Are you still using it regularly?

Wesley:I always keep it in the studio, when I'm deep in a jam or if there's just a moment where I'm like, I need to unlock some nostalgia from that. I have a special connection with that synth because literally the whole of ULTRAMARINE is basically that synth. I learned that synth and made hundreds and hundreds of presets. So, all of the ULTRAMARINE stuff, it's just basically in this synth. So, if I want to unlock, or put in a sprinkle of that type of sound space, I'll just open up that synth. But I rarely use it these days if I'm honest, because I'm kind of trying to find new ways and new things to get excited about, but it's always there.

Kade: Do you think the waiter version of you that first got that synth could have foreseen where you've come to now?

Wesley: I think so. I actually think so. I've always followed a sense of delusion and had a sense of I don't care what reality is saying right now. I actually feel like if I just do this, I'll be somewhere else. So I followed that gut instinct all the way until the time I was in a position where I could make ULTRAMARINE and just focus on music for whatever that period of time was. I was already thinking if this doesn't go to plan, it's fine, but I think it actually might. I think I'm going to do it anyway because I feel like there's a chance it actually might just happen. I think that where I'm at now is a part of that feeling I had for sure.

I still feel like I'm not necessarily where I want to be, almost like I've got a further view down the line, which I want to try and get to. But I always just follow that, whatever that gut feeling is, to be honest, especially because I think now the world's so shit. It's so hard to actually find a safe space to dream and have those visions. I'm still on that lane, trying to make this version of my life work out. I don't think I'll ever jump off though either, because this is all I've ever known.

Kade: What do you think keeps pushing you or keeps your chin up? Even when the going gets tough.

Wesley:I just have a really pure sense of excitement when it comes to making things that could gas me up. Like it really keeps me going. That's all I could do. Like, my favourite thing to do in the world is just sit around making a song that I'm really excited about with some people or on my own. Sometimes it’s when I’ve come up with a video idea or when I've written something or a scene. That rush I get, I think, I think that's all I ever need.

I guess that is that question where it's like, what would you do for free? That's what I would be doing for free. And I did do it for free for much of my life. So it's basically that. I used to love drawing. I was obsessed with drawing and then I wanted to be an animator and then I wanted to make films. Then I wanted to make documentaries and then I wanted to make scores. Then I started making beats. I've always just gotten through the day by making stuff and feeling like that was like my passport to something else.

Kade: You know, you touched on something there that I wanted to talk about more because you initially went to study film in London?

Wesley:Yeah, yeah.

Kade: I wanted to ask how film and cinema has played a role in your journey as a musician and how you think it changes the way you approach songwriting?

Wesley: Because I guess I wanted to do films first. So, when I say films, I don't mean actual films. I mean, I had a camera and I was editing things and writing ideas down. But yeah, I was doing that first, and that was really my whole bag. I had like a YouTube page and I'll just spend the summers making skits and writing stuff down. Then I like worked out that I needed to just essentially just get out of the town I was in and I just needed to leave home. I was like, the way to do that is university and just trying to get into a uni somewhere. And then I did that.

Around that time I was making music. I just started making beats. It wasn't necessarily like the transition point where I fully jumped into production, I didn't really believe I was a traditional musician either. So, it wasn't like I could go do music theory. It just felt a bit too alien to me. I always knew I wanted to do film. So, then I went to uni and I studied film. But while I was at uni, I just started making beats the whole time. I just flip flopped.

So, I got to uni and then for the most part, I was kind of just making music the whole time I was there. By the time I finished uni, I knew that music was my North Star with what I wanted to do. I thought to myself, this is the moment for me to try and pursue this. Later on down the line, I'll get back into film. Which was sooner than I thought, because then I just ended up directing all my own videos. But that still doesn't fulfill that dream either, because one day I'd love to write a series and make a feature and do all that stuff. But I haven't really had the chance yet, because I've still got to chase this one down.

Kade: Do you think now your experience as a musician will in turn influence how you see yourself as a filmmaker down the line?

Wesley: Yes. I don't know how yet. 100% though. I think because I understand the world I've built musically. I think people have asked me these questions in the past, like, are you going to write a show? Are you going to do a movie? They already can kind of imagine how it could feel just because of how the music feels like a world. I think, yeah, I'm really big on world building and that weird indistinguishable fibre that goes into creating a world. I like doing that. So yeah. the music will definitely inspire it, and the videos will definitely inspire the music, and it will all be one crazy thing. But right now, yes, it's definitely music I'm locked in with.

Kade: Winding back the clock a bit, I wanted to ask you about something you said in your very first interview, which is that “music doesn't always have to be the best thing in the world. It just needs to be honest”. Do you still agree with that?

Wesley: Yeah, I agree with that, even more now. I'm on purity over perfection right now. I mean, don't get me wrong, like there was a lot of time and work put into that record’s production, so it sounded like future music, and it sounded like this really big thing, but ultimately the singing isn't the most technically crazy, every single bar isn't a triple entendre. You know, some of the drum sounds are pretty rough. There's moments where basslines are clipping and the distortion's fucked up but actually, I like how it sounds.

Like for me, you don't need to hyper focus on it when it's super pure. I feel like it's actually the opposite. When you're just following instincts and you've given yourself space to be honest and pure, it kind of just comes a lot more naturally than it does if you're technically trying to make this perfect thing, which I think never really exists. I'm not a huge fan of things that feel clinical and too overly perfect. But yeah, I think even more now. Yeah, I'm an advocate of that quote. For sure.

Kade: Do you think there's ever been a moment where honesty and taste pulled you in different directions?

Wesley:I'd say with me, I have to wear two different hats when I make music, because I produce and I'm an artist. So sometimes the things that really excite me that’s also the reason why the music is pushing forward is the production. So, I'm like, I want to make a song that's inspired by like Phil Collins or Daft Punk synths, but then I also want to flip it to be some UK crazy dance or soul music or whatever it is. This is what's in my head, the colours and the feelings that are in my brain, maybe for a song like Pluto Baby, I was just describing. But then I'll be like, I want it to be dark and beautiful and twisted as well.

So, I have all these different things that show how I feel in my heart. This is what I think will excite me right now, musically, not even lyrically. Then it will get made and there will be this crazy canvas that's like this really colourful, weird, really big thing that the production has made. Like, we've made this song and then I've produced it. Then sometimes it's like, particularly in the past, I'd say that would be when it gets most dangerous, because if sometimes you make this whole crazy soundscape, then it's like, wait, what have I got to say? Who am I within this?

This is a really cryptic conversation, but in those moments, that's when I think purity is most tested with me. But that's why I never put those on. If I don't feel like I've made it there and I've got two birds with one stone, I normally would just leave it, or I'll change elements so I feel like I can approach it in a way that feels honest. But I think that's also where there's a part of my music that's purely escapism and it's more poetic, which is also really honest for me. That still comes from an honest place. It's just more like an inner child type of place.

For example, Pluto Baby, that's me, that's a scene of a movie that's in my life. It's something I lived through, but I turned up the drama and I made it more dramatic and feel like a scene in a film. Not just any film, but a film that's in my own life as opposed to going super deep into the metaphors in a way that the song doesn't have an honest core. To be honest, I've just got good at knowing what to do within my own chaos. It gets quite chaotic, but I actually know how to navigate myself within it. So, it still remains honest and pure. I lean into different things, different parts of my brain and different things I like doing more. Because I like fiction, but I also like nonfiction. But the perfect balance is when they're inspired by both.

Kade: Well, that's awesome. I guess to move to wrapping things up. What do you think is something you're chasing at the moment that you haven't quite figured out yet?

Wesley: That's a good question. That's a good question.

Kade: Alternatively, I could ask you rather than something you're chasing at the moment, what is something that you're chasing at the moment that you would like to achieve throughout 2026?

Wesley:That one's tough because I kind of just got to a finish line that was completely consuming of everything I had, which was the album and the campaign. So, I'm literally in this zone. Imagine a rocket that's used all of its fuel to leave the atmosphere and then it gets to space and the engine turns off, it's just like that. I'm literally in that weird gap in between the engine turning back on and me just kind of floating off.

But I'd probably just say, I don't know. All of the things that I don't want to say are another part of what my next creative adventure is musically, but that's probably what it is. I don't want to necessarily wait three years to make the next one. I feel like I learned so much making this one. I need to harness those things I learned and make the next music, which I already have in my head as well. But I need to hone in on the skills and the perspective I've got from the album and make the next thing. That probably isn't the core of the question that you're asking, but I think that's all I can think about right now.

Kade: Oh, no, you've already explained it really well, especially like with the space analogy. I 100% get where you're coming from.

Wesley:Oh yeah, okay, cool, cool, cool. Nice. Yeah, that was a sick interview, man.

Kade: Yeah, no, I really appreciate your time. I really appreciate the thought that you put into your answers. I just want to say I really appreciate the craft, the work that you put into your craft. And I love the music.

Wesley:No, likewise, bro. Like you do the same thing with your questions. Like that was a really good interview. So, I appreciate you the same way.

Kade: I really appreciate your time and congratulations on the album being out.

Wesley:Thanks, man.

Kade: Thank you for the opportunity.

Wesley:Appreciate you, man. Of course.

Listen to ‘Forever Ends Someday’ by Wesley Joseph below.